Welcome to Episode 163 of the Betfair Trading Community podcast! In today’s episode, we’re diving into the fascinating world of Betfair Trading versus Matched Betting. We’ll discuss the challenges and advantages of both, while uncovering some eye-opening truths about the betting industry. From bookmakers folding to legal threats, we’ll explore the risks and rewards of these betting practices. Plus, we’ll share expert insights on how to navigate the complex world of trading and why it’s a valuable long-term strategy. Get ready for an intriguing discussion that will leave you with a fresh perspective on Betfair Trading and Matched Betting. Let’s get started!
Timestamp:
00:00:59 Unpredictable events shock world, defy predictions.
00:04:59 Bookmakers can be dishonest and difficult.
00:06:48 Match betting companies desperate as bookmakers stop offers, no longevity.
00:10:56 Match betting companies spread untruths, worrisome but profitable.
00:16:19 Betting and bookmakers start small, often one-person operations, unlike other industries. Trading is a lifelong skill, unlike match betting. Be cautious of match betting companies.
00:18:01 Laughed at legal threats, didn’t get response. Surprise! Numerous legal threats, but all fun. Quick fixes won’t make much money. Used different accounts for betting, faced issues. No control over administrative errors in free bets.
00:21:03 Betfair: Stable, profitable sports trading platform.
Key Topics & Bullets
- Introduction to the podcast episode title: 163 Betfair Trading vs Matched Betting
- The speaker’s experience with bookmakers folding and leaving customers’ money unprotected
- The reliability and financial security offered by Betfair and Betfair Exchange
- The speaker’s humorous encounters with legal threats
- The limitations and challenges of quick fixes in betting
- Issues with receiving free bets and resolving them through traditional channels
- The preference for trading on platforms like Betfair due to their business model
- Concerns about bookmakers withholding winnings and making it difficult for customers to access their money
- Examples of corrupt practices by bookmakers, such as Net Bet’s identity verification process
- The speaker’s concerns about misinformation spread by match betting companies
- The potential of match betting as a strategy to build a bankroll for trading
- Collaborative efforts on trading strategies with the betting and trading community
- The issues of multi accounting and its association with successful betting institutions
- The value of trading as a long-term skill and career growth opportunity
- Caution advised when dealing with match betting companies and their spread of mystery and misinformation
- Examples of black swan events and their impact on stocks and predictions
- The reliability and longevity of Betfair as an open and fair stock market for sports trading
- The importance of finding value in the market for successful Betfair trading
- Development of an introductory course for easier understanding of Betfair trading
- The long-term relevance and usefulness of Betfair trading skills
- The limitations and unsustainability of match betting due to bookmakers shutting down accounts
- The misconception and false claims about the longevity of match betting
- The ineffectiveness of multi accounting and different IP addresses in preventing account closures
- The eventual limitations imposed by bookmakers on popular betting strategies like accumulators
- The concept of being “gubbed” by bookmakers and its impact on match betting as a sustainable strategy
Transcript:
Martin Futter [00:00:00]:
Hi, guys. Welcome to another podcast from Brett Fair trading community.com. Obviously, with me or host Martin. so last week’s podcast was really well received. you didn’t listen to it, I basically talked about Betfair trading, versus stock market trading. Talked about the pros cons of both. and why I think Bedford trading is actually a much better proposition. And it’s funny, isn’t it? But within the course of a week, We’ve actually seen this in action that actually the stocks, I mean, even the stocks I’ve invested in have plummeted since Russia invaded Ukraine. and actually, you know, eventually when, you know, when things do look like they might to the corner, it actually would be a good time to get in again.
Martin Futter [00:00:46]:
But it’s interesting, isn’t it? But basically,
Martin Futter [00:00:48]:
One of my main points about stock market trading, one of the big problems with it for me is that you have so little control over what happens
Martin Futter [00:00:56]:
that you know, how can you predict
Martin Futter [00:00:59]:
whether a country is gonna invade another country? These are blacks, what they call, black swan events, an event that you just cannot foresee. of course, yeah, there was some tensions, but then there’s been tensions for 8 years. We didn’t know this was gonna happen. And actually, I think the world was shocked when it did happen. When you saw the reaction of politicians, they all tried to come out and sell. We fully expected this, don’t you worry about it? Well, actually, no, they didn’t because everything, all the sanctions, etcetera, they’ve tried to put in place. have taken quite a few days to get put in place. Right? If you knew this was coming on a day, you would have it ready. Bang. Gone. So this is the thing, isn’t it? That with stocks, it’s you’re you’re basically, you’re betting on how will the world’s economy go for the next while? I don’t know about you, but firstly, what what knowledge do you have in area. I don’t imagine many of you do have knowledge in that area. and even if you do, you know, how do you predict this stuff? We hit endless amounts of predictions of what’s likely and what’s unlikely in terms of things like stocks, in terms of how someone like Putin will act, majority of the time, these people who say these things are really unlikely that they’re actually they do happen.
Martin Futter [00:02:18]:
You know? So
Martin Futter [00:02:19]:
Just something to bear in mind. I love it when, you know, I record one of these and I get really good feedback from you guys. And then within the whole of the weeks and it’s been posted, something happens that kind of backs it up big time. And so it’s really convenient when that happens. So today, what I’m gonna talk about, because it went so well, I’m gonna do another match betting versus. And today, it’s gonna be Betfair trading versus match betting. so, yeah, another part of our verses series, so I hadn’t men mentioned match betting before that see, didn’t they? Well, yeah, I guess you would have seen the title of the podcast, which obviously I do after the podcast is recorded. So Yeah. Match betting. So most of you would have heard of match betting. I’m not gonna go into too much on that. If you if you wanna know what that is, just Google it. basically, match betting is just a process of, using very low risk free bets from bookmakers to make money. Okay. it’s not risk free. Okay. Some people try and say risk free. That’s not actually true. I am surprised they get away with saying that because actually there’s huge risk with match betting in terms of lots of your money gets tied up in bookmakers.
Martin Futter [00:03:36]:
Right? Bookmakers,
Martin Futter [00:03:38]:
as we have seen a lot over the last few years have a tendency to fold at any given moment. You know, I can’t remember something. Well, I’ll tell you one that’s recently folded. No Vibet in the UK was 1. but there’s been quite a few since I first discovered Match Bedding a few years ago. So what happens is that these little bookmakers pop up give you really good offers, and then they run out of money or whatever, or they just decide to close the business, and your money is not protected. So what what a lot of people don’t know is that with bookmakers, in general, your money is not protected at all. So let’s say, let’s have a bet on the World Cup this year. We’re bookmakers. A lot of bookmakers, if they fall between now and World Cup, I won’t even get my best stake back. Let alone any winnings I might have made if that selection won. You know, people don’t realize this. So there’s 3 levels in general. There’s a basic and a medium and a high level of protection. Bet offers a high level. Well, at least it did the last time I checked. but, you know, Betfair is a huge company has no issues. If it goes insolvent, it will give you all your money back. So it’s absolutely brilliant. That’s why we love Betfair. That’s why we love the Betfair Exchange. you are protected up the wazoo, which is exactly where you wanna be when you’re investing money. Okay.
Martin Futter [00:04:59]:
This isn’t true with bookmakers. The other problem with bookmakers is, and again, this isn’t talks about enough, is they don’t like to pay out. Right? So if they suspect your match betting, or if they think there’s anything at all going on that they don’t like, it’s their money. It’s their company. They will withhold withdrawals. They will make it so hard for you to money, they will ask for, you know, verification documents. Sometimes it doesn’t even exist. Right? some of these companies, you know, they’re they’re just they’re corrupt. You know, there’s no two ways about it. Some bookmakers, especially like I say, it’s these these smaller ones you really need to worry about. well, I remember, one company. I think it was Net Bet ringing me up, making me have to answer a phone and then talk to them for a while so that they decide I was who I said I was. I mean, how bizarre is that? Right? How bizarre is that? They’re actually ringing you up and going, right. I wanna hear your voice. I wanna what is that all about? you know, we do thousands of transactions. Most of us probably do, like, tens, maybe a 100 transactions on on cards and things in a month. Not at one time, do you have to speak to anyone, you know, with your voice and give out really personal details over the telephone? you know, this is actually and this is this is where I kind of I always get a bit I always push back a bit when someone says match betting is absolutely free. It’s not true. Okay? It is very low risk, and I do think it’s I do think match betting is a good thing, definitely. But it’s not risk free. you can tie your money up. Now, the next stage, what’s what scares me with with Match Benny is that
Martin Futter [00:06:48]:
The companies who sell match betting products have got increasingly desperate in recent years because bookmakers aren’t giving many offers. And we all know the other big problem match betting is once you’ve done it for a little bit, the bookmakers show your accounts. which, you know, okay, you you can take a profit and run, but there’s no long term sustainability with match betting. And I’ve even seen adverts pop up on our channel where people try and claim there is this great longevity with bookmakers. It’s not true. Okay. I’ll just, I’ll just stop that dead in the war to now. I remember when I first started much betting years ago, I even did multi accounting. I used, you know, other people let me do it for them and things like that. And even then, all the accounts, and this is off different IP address you know, whatever, all that kind of stuff. All the accounts get shut down pretty much straight away. And even if you’re just doing it as one person, And you’ll probably know, unless you’re listening, you’ll probably have done match betting, and you’ll know it gets shut down. So I’d say again, be really careful if anyone’s trying to sort of sell you stream of match betting, you know, you can keep doing it with bookmakers on sports offers. It’s not true. Even accumulators. I mean, that kind of got popular for a while. And, Patty Power, I remember having decent, they shut it down pretty much straight away. So my experience, these things just do not last at all. And and I think, well, everyone says that there’s a word people you’ve gubbed, you’re gubbed by the bookmakers, and that means they’ve just either shut your account, or they’ve limited your stakes down to about £2 and they won’t give you any more promotional offers. So, while Smash Benning’s nice, it’s a a bit of a quick hit. It’s not a long term sustainable
Martin Futter [00:08:34]:
way to make money. And the other thing is like I said, these companies have started getting desperate. Right? And what scares me is that now they really push the casino offers
Martin Futter [00:08:46]:
Now, I’m not talking about casino offers where it’s like, yeah, just spin for £10 worth of slots bins, and then we’ll give you £10 bonus and all you have to do is spin that and you can take your profit. Cause offers like that are fine. The the smaller ones with really good expected value that you’ve got a really high chance of getting your money back. they’re absolutely fine. The ones that scare me and the ones that they’re really pushing now are these casino offers where it’s £203100. of sometimes up to £500. And you put that down and you get a bonus of whatever 500, but you have to roll it through 40, 50 times. And then people will tell you, oh, yeah, but the expected value is you should make a tenor after doing this. And it’s like, well, we keep doing them and doing them and doing them. So gonna make money. Well,
Martin Futter [00:09:32]:
what I found, because I I did try this because I thought, well, you know, I keep getting told about this expected value. Right? Now the problem is with these offers invariably,
Martin Futter [00:09:42]:
you can’t use small stakes. So you couldn’t just do ten get a 10 pound, what what tends to happen is you have to do the whole thing. You have to put the 100 in, the 200 in. And what then happens is you’re using a lot of money and it’s it’s a big risk because there’s a good chance of all those spins you will lose all of that money. Right? Often it’s one pound at least steaks, sometimes higher. Actually, on a lot of these sites, they recommend using high stakes for the spins, again baffles me. But the thing is what will happen, and what I saw time and time again was people reporting £2003,000
Martin Futter [00:10:20]:
losses in 1 month of doing this. And I thought the problem is you’re not building slowly. You know, it’s not like Betfair trading where I can use ever Bankroll size 01, and I can build gradually. And, you know, I can push through that way. This is you’ve gotta go pretty big and pretty hard. and you’ve basically got our balls of steel from the outset. And also, the problem is there’s a good chance you’re gonna lose 2, 3 rand a month. How long? sustainably, how long can you put up with that? I wouldn’t wanna put up with that for 1 month. I haven’t even put up with that for a month.
Martin Futter [00:10:56]:
So I’m always very worried about these things. I’m actually surprised that these companies get away with it because, as we know, like in the gambling sector, we have to be really careful. As we know, even in stocks and shares, they have to be fairly careful, but match betting companies seem to be able to spread any kind of untruths that they like, and no one no one ever says anything, which is, it’s a little bit worrying. so anyway, like I say, you should choose Dylan. I don’t think match betting is a bad thing. That’s important to remember here. What I do think is that it’s quite scary what they trying to pedal now. And why they’re desperate is they’re trying to keep hold of you. Right? They wanna keep hold of you. They National Bank Companies realize that, you know, most same people do being for a maximum a year, and then they’re pretty much out of it. And they’re ready to be on summer and it’s actually gonna make them term profit. You know, it’s kind of a quick. I always think it’s quite a nice way to build a bankroll for trading, and a lot of people who’ve come to bet their trading community and pushed on are ones who built a bankroll through much betting and then learnt to trade and pushed on, and now they’re making, you know, consistent profit month after month. So that’s really important. Right? But like I say, with these companies, obviously, their agenda is fine because that they’re trying to make money from your subscription. That’s literally what they’re doing. like I say, they’re not professional match betters because most of those people’s accounts would have got dubbed. It’s not like something like Bitfair trading community where you have me, Ryan, Adam, who are actively trade with you pretty much all day every day. you know, I get told off actually by my wife a lot of the time, the amount of time I spend with you guys have bet for training and on bet for, you know, it’s pretty much a lifestyle for me, but I love it. And it doesn’t have to be that way. Obviously, I’m creating a lot of things that will lessen the screen time, like the 7th forget strategies and collaborative stuff we’re doing. The other thing I’m gonna start possibly this week, I was gonna do it today, but I didn’t sleep last night because my little my little naught year old, didn’t fancy sleep and decided he just wanna scream his head up for a night. So I was gonna start a thread on the trading strategies and see if we could get a community collaborative effort going of that again with the members’ filters that we have. but, yeah, I think I think it’s quite clear what the what the advantages and disadvantages of match betting are, and this is someone who knows that industry really well. talking to you today. So don’t feel like, oh, well, mine, you know, he’s a trader. He doesn’t really know anything. It’s not actually true. anything is worth knowing about. I know about it. The other thing that worries me is that people get into multi accounting, which is, I think, you know, doing it for your wife or whatever, and that’s fine. What worries me is that I actually got contact to buy a guy and he’s he’s trying to get, you know, loads and loads of people to do this multi accounting. basically, my accounting means that he’ll use someone else’s name in their account and basically make profit that way. But obviously, there’s a real gray area, surrounding the legality of that. And I’m not gonna get into that today. I’ve even I’ve even seen people have contacted solicitors. Problem is is these areas solicitors don’t really understand either. you’ll find this with with something like match betting because it’s such a kind of niche, strange.
Martin Futter [00:14:30]:
It’s kind of a, I don’t know, it’s kind of a I don’t know quite the right word, but there’s something a little bit. I don’t wanna use the word dodgy because it’s not quite dodgy. There’s something a little bit
Martin Futter [00:14:42]:
you know, the I’ll use the word dodgyx. I can’t think of a better one right now, but I spent a little bit dodgy about it. You know, you’re under the of darkness. You’re trying to hide everything from bookmakers. You’re trying to trick. You’re trying to trick people. You’re trying to trick companies all the time. you know, multi £1,000,000 companies like that. It’s not a great it’s not a great position to always be in. So, yeah, just be for, guys. I remember when I did it, I had to have quite a few. There’s a company called Ibas who,
Martin Futter [00:15:11]:
adjudicate, and I had to go through them quite a few times. when bookmakers wouldn’t pay out. Sometimes not even much betting. Sometimes just, I remember backing a player at 9 to 1 in a tennis tournament,
Martin Futter [00:15:24]:
The opponent pulled out. This was in the outright market. Stan James refused to pay me. I think it was like 900 quid. They refused to pay it. because someone pulled out,
Martin Futter [00:15:36]:
but I’d already placed a bet in the outright market. I mean, how mad is that? It’s literally, you know, it’s not my problem. I took the odds on offer
Martin Futter [00:15:44]:
And they hadn’t even pulled out at that point. There was just some rumors they might. So I took that I took that chance, and that’s the chance you take. And that’s the you know, the profit you get from it is basically essentially good because you’ve taken that risk. That’s you deserve that profit. because she took that chance.
Martin Futter [00:16:02]:
and I did have to write to Ibas, and it’s a long drawn out process. Right? I’m clever enough that I take of screenshots all the time about things because I know what I know what these people like. I know that book might make us a coniving, you know. most of bookmakers didn’t come out of, you know, really,
Martin Futter [00:16:19]:
I don’t know, successful institutions. They would normally start it up by a bloke you know, probably on a back street corner taking a few quid here and there from his mates, and then it grew from that into a big business. You know, that’s why a lot of them are just one person. Yeah. Dan James, Patty Powell, Beck Fred. It’s bizarre because you don’t really get that in other industries, do you? Just one person, you know, massive multinational companies like that. But that is kind of how betting and bookmakers have always started. so Yeah. Actually, billing’s fine. But if you aren’t long term gains, if you aren’t real profit in the long run, if you wanna make a career, if you if you wanna get away from what you’re currently doing into this or if you’re not even doing anything and you’re like, I wanna do something and I wanna learn a skill. trading is the skill to learn because it will help you for a long, long time. it’s a it’s a it’s an infinite skill. You know, essentially to when they die, you can be a trader, not the case with match betting. No matter what people tell Okay. I know there’s a lot of it’s a bit like, the stuff got on in Russia, isn’t it? There’s a lot of mystery spread by these match betting companies. you know, you gotta be really careful. I gotta be careful. I remember once saying this stuff, and I can’t remember what company it’s one of the, it was that kind of smarmy looking, you know, the kind of really young smarmy looking guy. He’s he’s he’s got the kind of you’ll know him if you’ve seen his adverts. He’s got the kind of face you just wanna punch. Do
Martin Futter [00:17:55]:
you know what I mean? just got that phone. I think he threatened me with legal action ones.
Martin Futter [00:18:01]:
it made I did I did laugh quite a lot about it. because I thought it would be interesting to see how you threatened some legal action for telling the truth. and funny enough when I funded that to him. Never heard never heard anything. Again, there’s a big shock. Right? But it’s amazing, isn’t it? It’s amazing what can go on. about the times we’ve been I think it’s I think we’ve had about 33 legal threats from people, which makes me laugh. But anyway, it’s all good fun. Maybe I’ll tell you about the other ones another time. but yeah, I think that most of you guys listen to this. You’re not just really after a quick fix because the quick fix isn’t really gonna do much. mean, just using one match betting account now, I’m not even sure how much money you’d make. Like, if you’ve never used the bookies before, maybe you’d make, I don’t know, a couple of grand if you’re lucky because it’s so hard in. And the other thing other things, I remember, when I moved house, when when I started was, I thought, well, I haven’t done a lot in with rods. So I could I could use her accounts on this new address. And, you know, obviously, no one would know, that we live in the same house because my accounts are attached to the old address, and I don’t use them anymore, because they’re all gubbed or banned. And I remember even with those, when it was watertight, sometimes they just didn’t give you the free bets because it was just even on the sign up offers, and it was just like an administrative error. but, you know, there’s there’s not a ton you can do about it because if they just say, well, you can’t have it.
Martin Futter [00:19:39]:
League from a legal point of view,
Martin Futter [00:19:41]:
a free bet. It’s just a company offering. They don’t really have to honor that. you know, it’s a bit different if you’ve placed the normal and they don’t pay it out. You do have more of that. Now, that’s something you could take to Ibas, but with with the free bird stuff, you can’t really take that to Ibas or in you do, you’re a lot less likely to be successful, at it. So but anyway, you you see how you’re kinda getting tied up in all this stuff You don’t really necessarily wanna be involved with much betting. Whereas with trading, all you’re doing is sitting there, looking at that for analyzing games, and you’re playing with Betfair and Betfair like it because they want want money on the exchange. You know, the more money you put in, the more money seeding on the exchange, they don’t earn from you losing. That’s another thing. I’m never comfortable with betting with a company that earns when I lose. Right? Because that’s what bookmakers do. They only earn when you lose. So every time you visit a bookmaker, can. They’re doing everything they can
Martin Futter [00:20:45]:
to find a way to make you lose your money, and they’re very clever at it. they’re very good at it. You know, they’re they’re the masters of it, but that fares different as we know. So when we trade, you know, we can do it. We can just enjoy it. There’s none of this kind of litigation,
Martin Futter [00:21:03]:
and there’s nothing either the tiniest bit dodgy about it. We’re just it’s very open. It’s fair. It’s it’s essentially a stock market for sports trading. It’s been around since 2 1000 and 4 or whatever. So we know it’s not going anywhere. But I think it might have been earlier than that, actually. I think that was just the first time I found it. So I think it might be nearly 20 years now. So so Betfair is not going anywhere. It’s just as big as it always has been, and it’s, it’s an amazing thing to trade on. And You know, it’s amazing that 20 years later, I still enjoy it as much as I ever did. You know, it’s amazing that value is still just always there. You know, you can always find if you work hard enough, if you sort the strategies out if you’re actually testing properly, you know, the value will always be there because there’s certain principles of market making where the markets don’t take into consideration everything, in my opinion, they should. And therefore, you’re always ending up getting value. And so situations. It’s just about finding the games where that value is present. And that’s the fun of bit for, you know, I always think, I got I got quite into board games over Christmas. And, not the kind of, like, monopoly and scrabble type ones, but, like, the more geeky advanced in-depth ones. that strategy type stuff. And, I really enjoyed. I really enjoyed them. I only I’ve only got a couple of them because I don’t really get a lot of time to them, obviously. But, yeah, I really enjoy those. And to me, that’s what Betfair is like. It’s like this really deep, complex strategy game. But once you actually bother to learn it and once you actually figure it out, it’s really easy to play. Right? It’s it’s kind of, and we’re trying to make that barrier as easy as possible for you guys. So, you know, Ryan’s just working so hard at the moment on one of these sort of intro courses for new members and new traders where he’s literally gonna just spell it out for you, x, y, and zed, and then you’re gonna basically be I think the I think the phrase he’s using as a super trader, and that’s really exciting because as soon as you get onto the Betfair forum and stuff you’re gonna have, you’re gonna be armed with a lot of good knowledge and information. And I think that’s key. But the great thing is once you have that stuff, Betfair trading, so much easier. And, you know, it’s one of those skills that once you learn it, it doesn’t go anywhere. you know, once I learnt Betfair trading, once I learnt the skill of Betfair trading, I didn’t forget it. It didn’t become useless. He we’re talking 20 years later. It’s still just as relevant today as it ever was. so, yeah, if you’re choosing between the 2 and you, you know, you’re really seriously, I’d just say be really careful when we testing heavily in match betting. You know, I think the quick hit thing, getting in and out quickly is great, and then find something that’s actually gonna make you long term money because all you don’t wanna do is spend loads and loads of time learning skills that ultimately turn out to be useless. and I think that’s where Betfair trading just has such a big leg up. anyway, guys, hope you’ve enjoyed listening to the podcast, and I’m back with another one soon.
